December 2012 Newsletter

Welcome to the MARC Newsletter a publication of the Michigan Area Repeater Council. This news letter is published quarterly in conjunction with the quarterly business meetings. If you prefer a non-columnized version of this newsletter click here for the wide version.

Please notice the instructions for the December electronic meeting.

President’s Update:

The September meeting in Lansing turned out very well. There were only 3 visitors, but much was accomplished. (Minutes can be found in this newsletter). The MARC election was held. The incumbent President, Secretary and Director were all re-elected.

Fred, W8FSM, a MARC board member, sent out a number of notices of proposed de-coordination. They were sent to sponsors/trustees of repeaters that were not on the air when checked, or had less than the required minimum coverage. A few sponsors did reply with explanations and some did not respond which resulted in de-coordination. At least one returned frequency pair has already been coordinated to a person who had been waiting for about one year.

Fairly often I receive an application for a new repeater, but find that the information is way off. This makes it difficult for the coordinator and also consumes a lot of volunteer time to try and correct. One good way to check your latitude, longitude and elevation is to use Google Earth. Bring up the program (free) and go to your antenna location. Place your curser on the antenna, tower or building and read the latitude, longitude and elevation at the bottom of the screen. This info, along with an address, which might be quite a ways from the antenna, is normally sufficient for the coordinator to verify the proposed site and start the coordination process.

Please recheck your figures before submitting them. I often see coordinates given incorrectly. This may be because of confusing degrees in decimal to degrees, minutes, seconds, the format that MARC uses. Sometimes the application is off a whole degree or two, or due to a typo. The more accurate the application, the faster the process can get started.

There is a useful web site to help you figure your HAAT (height above average terrain).

You must change the height in feet above ground to meters to enter it. To change feet to meters, divide feet by 3.281.To change the result back to feet, multiply meters by 3.281.

Remember that the MARC application (TDS) asks for the power at the antenna, not at the transmitter output. You need to calculate the losses in your cavities, connectors and feed line and then reduce the power at the antenna by the amount of the calculated loss (About ˝ the power at 3 db of loss). This will be the power used with your antenna gain to calculate the ERP of the proposed system. A handy site for ERP calculations.

73, Phil W8IC


Electronic Meeting Information:

The December meeting is an Electronic Meeting!


Dial In Number:    888-232-3870
Event ID:        603585#
   1. Dial into bridge using Dial In Number
   2. Enter Event ID
   3. If the meeting organizer is already present,
        you'll be connected. If not, you'll be
        placed on hold until the organizer appears.

WEBMEETING & Phone Bridge:

Your browser must be Microsoft™ Internet Explorer Version 4.x, 5.x or Netscape™ Communicator Version 4.x.

   1. Activate your Web Browser
   2. Go To
   3. Enter your name and email address
   4. Click on the "join event" button
   5. Once connected click on the telephone
       icon for dialing instructions.

Participation in the webmeeting is only needed for things like slideshow presentations, or use of a whiteboard where someone may need to do an illistration. It also allows us the opportunity to display the actual text of a motion for everyone to read. If you are unable to participate in the webmeeting you may still join in on the phone bridge from wherever you are.

The abilities for MARC to use the Phone Bridge and Webmeeting facilities has been brought to us by Jim WB8AZP and his employer.

We hope that moving to this format will increase participation by the membership of MARC so that we are better able to serve the amateur community.


Editors Note

Phil, has included some good information this month in his President's Update. The need for correct information is more important then it ever has been. As our bands become ever more crowded, we as amateurs need to put forth effort to utilize our bandwidth in an effective way.
When you submit a TDS please take a little extra time to make sure the data is correct. More importantly, don't make up information. There are too many tools available to help get the correct information to just try to fill in the blanks. Believe it or not, your coordinators have to go over all of the data to get an idea of the impact your repeater will have on the operations of other repeaters and we do see data that is obviously not correct so please, take the time to put correct and reasonable data into the fields on your TDS.


Treasurer's Report
For the Period: 08/31/2012 to 10/31/2012

MARC Funds balance on 08/31/2012 was $ 4,515.11
Income for September & October 2012 was $51.83 from Dues & interest.
Expenses for September and October were $117.59 for PayPal fees, Postage and Website Hosting.
MARC Funds balance on 10/31/2012 was $ 4,449.35

Respectfully Submitted,
Dave Johnson, WD8DJB
MARC Treasurer

Supporting Detail

MARC Funds as of 08/31/2012

   Share Acct Bal
   Money Market Bal
   Checking Bal

Beginning Balance

   Interest Sept/Oct

Total Income

   PayPal Fees
   IX Web Hosting 1 yr

Total Expenses

Marc Funds as of 10/31/2012

   Share Acct Bal
   Money Market Bal
   Checking Bal

Ending Balance







MARC Meeting Minutes

Date: September 8, 2012
This meeting took place in Lansing area, Delta Twp., Michigan.


President: Phil Manor, W8IC
Vice President: Dan Thompson, N8WKM
Secretary: Ann Manor, KT8F
Treasurer: Dave Johnson, WD8DJB
Director: Fred Moses, W8FSM*
Director: Jim Kvochick, WB8AZP
Coordinator: Dan Thompson, N8WKM
Coordinator: Phil Manor, W8IC
Coordinator: Dan Thompson, N8WKM
Coordinator: Phil Manor, W8IC
Coordinator: Fred Moses, W8FSM
Database Manager: Dave Johnson, WD8DJB

* Absent: none
Members present: Doug Chauvin; N8PYN, Corwin Moore, WB8UPM, Jim Poehlman, K8ABZ

Note: call signs of board members are not repeated in the minutes as they are listed above.

Meeting called to order by Phil at: 1:11 PM.

Ann read the June 2012 minutes. A motion to approve minutes from the June meeting was made by Dan, seconded by Dave, vote taken, minutes approved.
Treasurer’s report provided by Dave for the period of 7/31/12 to 8/31/2012. Motion to accept the report made by Jim, seconded by Dan, vote taken, motion carried.

Old Business:

Corwin inquired about the status of the Semara club’s repeater coordination and possible waiver for his repeater. Phil stated he is still waiting for a waiver from Semara. Phil stated the repeater might be moved and used for ARES/RACES operations. Phil then read an email from Paul Reinhardt, KC8BDK, the Macomb County RACES Officer reporting on current status and plans for the future of this repeater.

Fred reported on responses he has received from de-coordination letters that he had sent out. When repeaters are actually decoordinated, the repeater pair needs to be provided to Dave in order that the pair can be returned to the pool.

Phil stated Dave has placed the updated DOG resolution #11, made on June 2, 2012 on the MARC web site. Dave has created a membership page on the MARC web site and added PayPal. He also shipped the MARC laptop off for repair after backing up all the files. The laptop has been returned and is working well.

Corwin reported on interference generated from a 6-meter transmitter on key down for about 200 ms. A technical discussion followed.

Jim mentioned that he would soon run out of MINO numbers in the 4200 block of numbers. It was determined that it is OK to go into the 4300 block.


Phil turned the meeting over to Dan to run the elections. Nominations were reopened. With no new candidates nominated, Dan stated the incumbents are willing to run for re-election.
Jim made a motion that the secretary cast a unanimous ballot to re-elect the current incumbents, seconded by Corwin, motion carried.
Results: Phil, President, Ann, Secretary and Fred, Director were all relected for two year terms.

New Business:

Phil brought up DOG resolutions #12 and #13. Both of these resolutions have been in use for 3 years, and now need to be considered for a vote for inclusion into the bylaws or dropped. He then read number 12 as follows:
Resolution #12 – 5 December 2009
Adjacent analog channel spacing mileage requirements for across state line coordinations.
5 kHz - 100 miles
10 kHz - 70 miles
20 kHz - 25 miles
Note: Co-channel spacing is 100 Miles.

Fred made the motion, which was changed to add 15 kHz - 25 miles. Dan supported the motion. A lengthy discussion followed regarding repeater spacing and the requirements to report when certain changes are made to a repeaters power, height or location. Vote taken, motion passed.

Phil stated that resolution #13 also needs to be implemented or discarded, as the 3-year trial for DOG resolutions is up. He read the resolution as follows:
Resolution #13 5 December 2009
Allow use of the 441/446 band segments for repeaters in other states provided the following requirements are met:
HAAT <= 70 feet for the repeater
ERP <= 100 Watts
Co-channel separation >= 80 Miles
Do not use the following reserved frequencies: 441.050, 441.075, 446.000, 446.025, 446.050, 446.075, 446.100, 446.125 and 446.150

Phil called for a motion to adopt #13. Motion made by Jim and seconded by Fred. Request for discussion. No discussion. Call for vote, motion passed. These resolutions will be voted on (second vote) for inclusion into the bylaws at the December meeting.

A short discussion on the use of the 900 MHz band took place.

The December meeting will be held electronically on Saturday, December 1, 2012 at 1:00 PM.


Motion to adjourn made by Dan, seconded by Fred
Motion carried.
Meeting adjourned at 2:36 PM.

Respectfully submitted,
Ann Manor, KT8F, Recording Secretary

December Meeting Information:

December 1 2012
1:00 pm EST
Electronic Meeting
Callin Numbers:
    Toll-Free 888-232-3870
    Toll         805-240-9853
Access Code:    603585#   (For Bridge & Webmeeting)
Webmeeting URL:
Meeting Number: 8603585


For the Conference Bridge:
Dial the callin number listed above.
Wait for the call to be answered by the automated receptionist.
When prompted enter the meeting number listed above followed by the #.

For the Web Meeting:
Click on the link provided above.
Enter your name and email address, then select the "join now" button.

MARC Officers Appointed Positions
President:               Phil Manor W8IC Frequency Coordinator 902MHz: & up          Dan Thompson N8WKM
Vice President:        Dan Thompson N8WKM Frequency Coordinator 440MHz:                   Phil Manor W8IC
Secretary:               Ann Manor KT8F Frequency Coordinator Links & Control:       Phil Manor W8IC
Treasurer:              Dave Johnson WD8DJB Database Manager:                                      Dave Johnson WD8DJB
Director:                 Fred Moses W8FSM Newsletter Editor:                                         Dan Thompson N8WKM
Director:                 James Kvochick WB8AZP         

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