June 2012 Newsletter

Welcome to the MARC Newsletter a publication of the Michigan Area Repeater Council. This news letter is published quarterly in conjunction with the quarterly business meetings. If you prefer a non-columnized version of this newsletter click here for the wide version.

Please notice the instructions for the June electronic meeting.

President’s Update:

Active MARC coordination applications are as follows:
3 – 440 digital repeaters
1 – waiver request
1 – 6 meter repeater
2 – 440 links

Waiting list:
3 – 2 meter and 3- 440-repeater applications.

Please visit the MARC web site and check the activity reports to see what new and renewal applications have been processed.

73, Phil W8IC


Electronic Meeting Information:

The June meeting is an Electronic Meeting!


Dial In Number:    888-232-3870
Event ID:        603585#
   1. Dial into bridge using Dial In Number
   2. Enter Event ID
   3. If the meeting organizer is already present,
        you'll be connected. If not, you'll be
        placed on hold until the organizer appears.

WEBMEETING & Phone Bridge:

Your browser must be Microsoft™ Internet Explorer Version 4.x, 5.x or Netscape™ Communicator Version 4.x.

   1. Activate your Web Browser
   2. Go To
   3. Enter your name and email address
   4. Click on the "join event" button
   5. Once connected click on the telephone
       icon for dialing instructions.

Participation in the webmeeting is only needed for things like slideshow presentations, or use of a whiteboard where someone may need to do an illistration. It also allows us the opportunity to display the actual text of a motion for everyone to read. If you are unable to participate in the webmeeting you may still join in on the phone bridge from wherever you are.

The abilities for MARC to use the Phone Bridge and Webmeeting facilities has been brought to us by Jim WB8AZP and his employer.

We hope that moving to this format will increase participation by the membership of MARC so that we are better able to serve the amateur community.


Database Manager's Corner

The ARRL Repeater directory went to press on January 30, 2012. Any updates since will be included in next years publication.

We have a number of TDS forms that are overdue. Over 26% of the repeaters in our database have not been updated in two or more years. So take a minute and check your entry in the MARC Repeater Directory to see if it is time to update your records.

Dave Johnson, WD8DJB


Editors Note

Topics for the June meeting will inlcude continued discussion about the impact of creating splinter channels for narrowband digital voice operation, as well as continued discussion about ways to change the outdated methods of calculating spacing between cochannel and adjacent channel repeaters.


Treasurer's Report
For the Period: 02/29/2012 to 04/30/2012

MARC Funds balance on 02/29/2012 was $ 4,047.53
Income for March & April was $472.69 from Dues & interest and the ARRL Repeater Directory.
There were no reported expenses in March and April
MARC Funds balance on 04/30/2012 was $ 4,520.22

Respectfully Submitted,
Dave Johnson, WD8DJB
MARC Treasurer

Supporting Detail

MARC Funds as of 02/29/2012

   Share Acct Bal
   Money Market Bal
   Checking Bal
   Outstanding Checks
Beginning Balance

   Interest March
   Interest April

Total Income

   None Reported

Total Expenses

Marc Funds as of 04/301/2012

   Share Acct Bal
   Money Market Bal
   Checking Bal

Ending Balance







MARC Meeting Minutes

Date: March 3, 2012
This meeting took place electronically.


President: Phil Manor, W8IC
Vice President: Dan Thompson, N8WKM
Secretary: Ann Manor, KT8F
Treasurer: Dave Johnson, WD8DJB
Director: Fred Moses, W8FSM*
Director: Jim Kvochick, WB8AZP
Coordinator: Dan Thompson, N8WKM
Coordinator: Phil Manor, W8IC
Coordinator: Dan Thompson, N8WKM
Coordinator: Phil Manor, W8IC
Coordinator: Fred Moses, W8FSM
Database Manager: Dave Johnson, WD8DJB

* Absent: none
Visitors: Joe KD8CIL, Corwin WB8UPM, Ken N8KC

Note: call signs of board members are not repeated in the minutes as they are listed above.

Meeting called to order by Phil at: 1:00 PM.

Motion to approve minutes from the December meeting were made by Jim, seconded by Fred vote taken, minutes approved.
Treasurer’s report provided by Dave. Motion to accept the report made by Ken, supported by Dan, vote taken, motion carried. Ann read Dave’s report from the period of 1/31/12 to 2/28/12. Motion to accept the current report made by Jim, seconded by Fred, motion carried.

Old Business:

Phil reported that the Marc board has been extremely busy and so far has not had the time to send out decoordination notices to repeater Trustees that are delinquent on their TDS updates.

New Business:

Fred stated he went through several counties checking coordinated repeaters to see what is actually on the air. He found seven that were not on the air and one had extremely small coverage area, as low as 2 miles. One apparently had no receiver. In some cases the TDS was correct but the coverage did not meet the minimum requirements.( at least 10 miles ) Hopefully MARC can send some letters out to these trustees and have them correct the issues or return the coordination for someone else to use. Repeaters that cannot meet the minimum coverage requirement may be offered a SNPR repeater (Shared non-protected repeater). A repeater owner can be given up to 6 months to correct the problem. On overdue TDS updates, a 30 day period is given after notice before the coordination is withdrawn. Jim will help Fred with language on the notices to be sent out to the repeater trustees.
A correction by Phil, The Bylaws state that the time to correct a non compliant issue is "up to 90 days".

MARC will reimburse a Board member for gasoline used to take a long trip to investigate whether repeaters in that area are really on the air and possibly check that the location and antenna height are as reported on their current TDS.

MARC may ask for help from Michigan OO’s to determine if repeaters are actually on the air around the state.

Phil stated he would like to add a SNPR (Shared Non-protected Repeater) pair: (441.5 in 446.5 out) to the already in use (440.5 in 445.5 out). He would like to add it as a DOG resolution, instead of a bylaw change. Motion made by Dan seconded by Jim, vote taken, and motion passed. The resolution will be given the next higher number on the existing resolution list. If this frequency pair is already in use, please let Phil know. ( MARC has nothing coordinated on these frequencies.

Discussion on adding an application for membership to MARC on the web page. Dave and Dan will work on it and possibly add PayPal to allow easy payment to MARC.

Phil did some research on coordination separation standards. MARC in earlier years was setting up repeaters in different classifications based on their coverage area. These classifications were local, district, regional, and quadrant. The standards never incorporated a system to put repeaters closer than 120 miles. Over the years the Local classification was dropped, 100 miles is now used on 440 and waivers were permitted to allow closer spacing. Phil would like to see closer spacing on repeaters that are limited by the specified coverage area of their coordination. The district class repeater is limited to 25 miles coverage and it has a 15 mile free zone or protected zone that surrounds it (approximately 50% of the coverage area radius). Under MARC standards the next closest repeater would have to be 120 miles away on 2 meters. Based on the basic standard in the Bylaws it would make more sense to be 25+15+25 or 65 miles apart for two district class repeaters.

The next class, regional repeaters are a maximum coverage of 40 miles. That would allow a district repeater 40 + 20 + 25 at 85 miles of separation, or a regional class at 40 + 20+40 at 100 miles. Quadrant repeaters are normally repeaters built using large towers, giving them a very large coverage area. They should limit their coverage to 55 miles and have a safe zone of 30 miles. That means the closest a district class could be located to a quadrant would be 55 + 30 + 25 or 110 miles. All repeaters should be required to run PL tones (CTCSS) and the tones should be coordinated to prevent keying up more than one repeater at a time. Also, existing repeaters need to be sure that they are classified correctly based on their coordinated coverage.

The discussion was tabled and will be considered over the next three months.

Fred asked about simulcasting with more than one transmitter on one frequency. The issue was discussed but no conclusion was reached. Research is required. It appears this type system is something that may soon be requested.

Phil asked for a discussion on DMR repeaters, specifically MOTOTRBO and asked if they can be placed on splinter pairs. MOTOTRBO and similar type Digital repeaters operate using 12.5 kHz bandwidth signals. These will fit in MARC’s band plan on 440, where the channel splits are 12.5 kHz, but not on 2 meters where the splinter channels have only 10 kHz spacing. Dan and Fred will work on rewording DOG #11 to clarify that digital repeaters of 12.5 kHz bandwidth or less can occupy 440 splinters. On 2 meters only the 6.25 kHz digital repeaters can be coordinated in the 10 kHz splinter channels. (Dstar and some P25 types) The board will then look it over and vote on it when it’s ready.

an asked Corwin if he was aware of the waiver for his repeater that is currently neing initiated by Phil. Corwin was aware and stated he is happy with the waiver.


Motion to adjourn made by Jim, seconded by Fred
Motion carried.
Meeting adjourned at 2:40 PM.

Respectfully submitted,
Ann Manor, KT8F, Recording Secretary

June Meeting Information:

June 2 2012
1:00 pm EST
Electronic Meeting
Callin Numbers:
    Toll-Free 888-232-3870
    Toll         805-240-9853
Access Code:    603585#   (For Bridge & Webmeeting)
Webmeeting URL:
Meeting Number: 8603585


For the Conference Bridge:
Dial the callin number listed above.
Wait for the call to be answered by the automated receptionist.
When prompted enter the meeting number listed above followed by the #.

For the Web Meeting:
Click on the link provided above.
Enter your name and email address, then select the "join now" button.

MARC Officers Appointed Positions
President:               Phil Manor W8IC Frequency Coordinator 902MHz: & up          Dan Thompson N8WKM
Vice President:        Dan Thompson N8WKM Frequency Coordinator 440MHz:                   Phil Manor W8IC
Secretary:               Ann Manor KT8F Frequency Coordinator Links & Control:       Phil Manor W8IC
Treasurer:              Dave Johnson WD8DJB Database Manager:                                      Dave Johnson WD8DJB
Director:                 Fred Moses W8FSM Newsletter Editor:                                         Dan Thompson N8WKM
Director:                 James Kvochick WB8AZP         

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