WEB SITE: http://www.qsl.net/miarc        e-mail: miarc@yahoogroups.com

November 2002



A short note from the Prez………..



First of all, I would like to congratulate Dave Schwein KE8Z on being elected to the position of Director. I would also like to take this opportunity to thank Dan Thompson for taking the editors position so that this newsletter would still hit the press. Unfortunately, the position of Secretary was not filled at the September meeting. Any volunteers to fill this void should contact the Board.


The MARC Board received this e-mail from Jim Maike;


Due to personal responsibilities, I will be unable to continue my position with the Michigan Area Repeater Council; although I did enjoy the year, I spent serving.  I'm a newly elected County Commissioner in my County (I have no opposition in the upcoming General Election Nov. 5), and I have several building projects I need to finish before Jan. 1 when I take office. I wanted to inform you now of my decision to step down, so you can inform everyone in the December newsletter and appoint someone at the December meeting. Please take me off the miarc repeater ASAP.  I get a lot of email from the townships I will be representing, and the miarc repeater system is mostly junk mail anyway. So long, good luck, see you at the IRA ham fest. Jim.


So, at this time we are without a Vice-President. Again, if anyone is interested in sitting in this chair for the rest of his term, please contact me, or a Board member.


We are looking for a meeting location in the Kalamazoo area for the March meeting if you are interested in hosting this meeting please contact us ASAP. Please send replies to miarc@yahoogroups.com.


The December meeting will be held at the Mt. Clemens Elks. Directions are else where in this newsletter. Talk-in will be on 147.180/100hz Pl. Hope to see you at the meeting.




Dennis, W8DFG





Database Manager / Webmaster’s Corner


Activity during the past quarter continued at a brisk pace.  I produced updates of the web site Repeater Directory in August, September and October along with the Meetings and Newsletter pages.  I plan on producing another series of updates by mid November.


I completed my audit of the differences between the MARC repeater database that I received from N8UT 09/13/00 and the MARC database of 07/26/02.  On August 18, 2002. I distributed the results to adjacent state coordinators and the NFCC.  I received positive responses on my efforts to clear the air and update their information about Michigan’s Lower Peninsula repeaters.


Wallace Murray announced a number of pending new coordination’s at the September meeting.  However, I have not yet received a copy of the final coordination paperwork from Wallace and so the database has not been updated.


I processed 30 renewal TDS's between Aug 1 and Oct 31.  I currently have 5 renewal TDS’s in processing that were submitted between Oct 8th and 30th.


I logged 123 hours on MARC activities between Aug 1st and Oct 31st.


MARC will be starting de-coordination activities on repeaters that have not had TDS updates submitted in over two or more years. To give you an idea of the scope of the problem, there are over 100 repeater trustees that have not submitted TDS updates since December of 1999.  TDS’s are due at least once every two years.  If you want to know the status of your repeater refer to our web site repeater directory: http://www.qsl.net/miarc/repeater_directory.html.  If your entry is Red you have an overdue TDS.  I’m not trying to drum up more work for myself, just trying to remind you of your responsibility as a repeater trustee.


Thanks to all that are keeping their TDS’s current.  MARC relies on the validity of our database and your current information helps us do our job.

Dave Johnson, WD8DJB



Proposed By-Law Changes

August 14, 2002


ARTICLE I - Name & Purpose


2: Purpose

1.) Coordinate the allocation of         frequencies for use by repeaters, and remote receive link's in the Lower Peninsula of the State of Michigan where requested.

6.) Publish a quarterly newsletter to be electronically mailed to all members, all coordinated repeater trustees, all Great Lakes area coordinators, and the ARRL Section Manager for the State of Michigan. Also mailed via USPS to all currant members when requested, listing information which may be of concern to them, such as: new repeaters coordinated during the previous quarter; disputes or interference problems which are currently known; and the date, time, and place of the next meeting of the MARC.


ARTICLE II - Membership and Dues


2.) Full Member. A Full Member shall be a repeater owner and/or trustee, and have all of the rights and privileges of membership including voting and holding office.

3.) Supporting Member. A Supporting Member shall have all of the rights and privileges of membership except voting and holding office. This membership is open to all Amateur Radio Operators and Amateur Radio Organizations.


ARTICLE III – Officers


A. The officers of the MARC shall be

1.)    President

2.)    Vice President

3.)    Secretary

4.)    Treasurer

5.)    Two (2) Directors

6.)    Coordinator(s)no more than two.

7.)    Database Manager

8.)    Immediate Past President




4.) Treasurer. The Treasurer shall maintain records of Full Members, Supporting Members (delete, and Associates), maintain the financial records, collect dues, disburse all Monies, file all reports and returns as may from time to time be required by various governmental agencies, and perform such other duties as are customarily associated with the title of Treasurer.


5.) Directors. Each Director shall be assigned by the President to oversee, verify, and assist a Coordinator. The Directors shall assign the Michigan coordination number to all completed coordination’s, and verify the coordinators activities as being in strict accordance with these By-Laws and the Standards and Procedures. The Directors will assist the other officers in the proper conduct of the affairs of the MARC and perform such other duties as are customarily associated with the title of Director.



7.) Coordinator(s).

It shall be the explicit duty of a Coordinator to assure that all coordination activities are conducted strictly within the literal written bounds of these By-Laws and the Standards and Procedures. The Coordinator(s) shall be appointed and/or removed at the discretion of a majority vote of the other officers of the Board of Directors. No more than two (2) Coordinators shall be appointed at any given time. If two are appointed, one shall be responsible for coordination activities regarding two-meters and down and the other shall be responsible for coordination activities above two meters in the ARS allocated frequencies. Coordinator(s) will be solely responsible for direct coordination/de-coordination activities conducted by MARC. While serving actively, the Coordinator(s) shall have full voting rights in the affairs of the Board of Directors. Coordinators shall have no defined term limits.




7a. It shall be the explicit responsibility of each coordinator to assure the prompt delivery of current data and   information to the Database manager as it becomes available for recording.


8.Database Manager. The database manager shall be solely responsible for maintaining accurate and up-to-date MARC coordination records in electronic and organized paper formats for the MARC. Electronic records must be backed up to a remote location at all times. The Database Manager shall be appointed and/or removed from office at the discretion of a majority vote of the other officers of the Board of Directors. While serving actively, the Database

Manager shall have full voting rights in the affairs of the Board of Directors. The Database Manager shall have no defined term limits.


2.) Term of Office.

The term of office of all officers, except Immediate Past President, Coordinator(s) and Database Manager, shall be two (2) years, and further until replaced. The office of Immediate Past President, if filled, shall have a term of one (1) year. The term of office for elected officers shall begin on the first day of December in the year elected. The terms of office shall be staggered—Chairman, Secretary, and one (1) Director shall begin in even numbered years; Vice Chairman, Treasurer, and one (1) Director shall begin in odd numbered years. The office of Immediate Past President shall be filled by the outgoing President, if any, and shall have a term of one (1) year.


3.) Coordinator(s) and Database Manager    shall have no defined term of office.








ARTICLE V - Appointed Position


1.) The Board of Directors shall appoint Full Members to such positions as may from time to time be needed in order to fulfill the purposes for which the MARC exists; these positions shall include, but not be limited to, Frequency Coordinator, Database Manager, and Newsletter Editor. The appointees shall serve at the pleasure of the Board of Directors and may be removed at any time, with or without cause, by majority vote of the Board of Directors. The appointees shall have their actions directed by such guidelines as the Board of Directors shall establish, and their actions shall be subject to review by the Board of Directors. Should an appointee resign, or a vacancy otherwise occur, the President shall appoint a Full Member to fill the position until the next meeting of the Board of Directors, at which time the Board of Directors shall appoint a Full Member to the position. The President shall review with each appointee in December of even numbered years whether the appointment should be continued and shall report to the Board of Directors before their next meeting the result of this review.


3. Database Manager.


The Database Manager shall assist the Frequency Coordinator(s) in the maintenance of the MARC database of coordination’s and
shall assist the Treasurer in maintenance of the MARC mailing list.
The Database Manager shall be responsible for (STRIKE OUT mailing and) receiving the annual operation reports of the repeaters coordinated by the MARC and such other related clerical duties as may from time to time be assigned by the Board of Directors. All records shall be made available for inspection by any member of the Board of Directors at any meeting and at such other times and places as the Board of


(ed Note: This portion printed as received.)

This is a reminder to all repeater Trustees, TDS’ are due every two years. If you do not know the current status of the TDS on your repeater please see http://www.qsl.net/miarc/repeater_directory.html to see the status of your repeater. Also, if you would like a nice way to find your HAAT data as well as create a coverage map for your repeater please see http://www.cplus.org/rmw/english1.html for information about

Radio Mobile. The learning curve is high, but well worth the effort.




Letter to the Editor, the MARC newsletter November 2002


In the August 2002 MARC newsletter, there were some proposed law changes that the membership are asked to review before ratification in December.  As a member of the By-Law Committee, I felt compelled to bring to the membership’s attention, certain changes, the ramifications of which may not be readily apparent.  Please reference the by laws on the MARC web site for the complete present version.  I feel very strongly about the changes that are proposed in Article II.  ALL members need to fully understand the implications here!  I will reiterate what the last sentence of this letter states (in part): “…if you feel that the MARC should be responsive to ALL the Amateur Radio operators in the lower peninsula, you MUST vote these changes down…”  If you look at nothing else in this letter to the editor, READ AND UNDERSTAND ARTICLE II and my comments about them!  In my opinion, the definition of a “Full Member” should remain as is!


Article I – Name & Purpose; Section B, Purpose.  (This was erroneously printed as “Section 2) Purpose” in the newsletter.)  The change in subsection 1 just reiterates the coordination of link frequencies.  Subsection 2 now specifies that printed newsletters will be sent by request only and that electronic newsletters will be the norm.


Article II – Membership and Dues; Section B Full Member.  The stipulation “…be a repeater owner and/or trustee, and…” has been added to the description of a Full Member.  This addition to the original description is erroneously labeled as “2.) Full Member” in the

newsletter.  In addition, Section C Supporting Member (erroneously labeled Section 3 in the newsletter) has this addition after the present description: “This membership is open to all Amateur Radio Operators and Amateur Radio Organizations.”  This statement is already in the present by-laws in Section A of this article!


What’s going on here in Article II is VERY IMPORANT to understand!  Two of the members of the By-Laws Committee felt strongly about the changes in this Article.  A majority of us on the committee DO NOT agree with this change. What it means is that Officers with voting rights for the MARC can only be repeater owners and/or trustees!  This is contrary to the opinions expressed by the ARRL and the FCC (and most hams)!   The ARRL and the FCC states that coordinator respond to the “broadest base” of local ham operators.


Here is an excerpt from the ARRL publication "The FCC Rule Book" , 10th edition, Chapter six, page 6-10. This material is not included in the official rules, but is part of the discussions for the planning of the coordination procedures, specifically from the FCC's Report and Order to PR docket 85-22.






The Commission stated:


(Paragraph two)

“Several coordinators urged us to establish some mechanism to officially recognize local or regional coordinators. Others were concerned about the potential for abuse of power at the local level. Another concern was the exclusive right to coordinate within a geographical area. It is essential that repeater coordinators respond to the broadest base of local amateurs and consider the concerns not only of repeater owners, but also of those users of spectrum affected by repeater operation. Their authority is derived from the voluntary participation of the entire amateur community; their recognition must be derived from the same source. We believe the new rules will assure that a coordinator is representative of all local amateur operators.”


We all need to understand what the FCC wrote and how that differs from what is proposed in our by-law changes in Article II.  The first passage to understand is: “It is essential that repeater coordinators respond to the broadest base of local amateurs and consider the concerns not only of repeater owners, but also of those users of spectrum affected by repeater operation.”  In this sentence, the FCC is saying that we (the MARC) must consider ANYONE that can potentially use repeaters, NOT just the owners!  To continue “We believe the new rules will assure that a coordinator is representative of all local amateur operators.”


This final sentence is self evident!  ALL local amateurs, not some, not an elite group, but all!  The proposed changes to Article II is contrary to this belief!  The changes in Article II basically says that only repeater owners/trustees can be officers and vote in our organization!  I want to go on record as vehemently opposing this change since it was suggested!  It is contrary to the purpose of the MARC!


We need to get MORE people involved with our decision making process, not less!  We need MORE hams to join the MARC and volunteer to assist with its responsibilities and decision making process!  We, the membership should vote down these proposed changes and the By-Laws in Article II should be left as it has been for over a decade now.  That is the right thing to do even if it means that we must revisit this subject at the next membership meeting, IMHO.


Article III – Officers, Section A. The officers of the MARC shall be.  In this section, there are the proposed additions of no more than 2 coordinators and the database manager as voting officers.  This brings our officer count to a possible 10.  Please think about this one carefully, as we’ve had a problem with getting a quorum at our meetings in the past!


In section B Duties of the Officers, subsection 4 Treasurer, there is a change to delete “Associate” members from which the Treasurer will maintain records of.  Because we haven’t eliminated the Associate Member from Article II yet, we may not want to lose track of “sponsors of repeaters coordinated by the MARC, who are not members of the MARC”.


In section B Duties of the Officers, subsection 5 Directors, the addition of the President being able to assign each director some responsibilities to assist a coordinator, the directors assigning Michigan Coordination number to completed coordinations, the verifications that coordinators activities adhere to MARC guidelines should be self explanatory.


In addition, subsection 7 Coordinator(s) and subsection 8 Database Manager has been added.  With the addition of these new positions are details of their responsibilities, voting rights and term limits.  Also given is the fact that each of these officers are voted into and out of their positions be a majority vote of the rest of the officers.  Also given under sub-subsection 7a is the directive that the coordinators must provide pertinent information to the Database Manager in a timely manner.


Section D Term of Office (erroneously printed as 2.) is to be changed to add the Coordinator(s) and Database Manager to the first sentence under exceptions.  Also, “for elected officers” is added to the sentence beginning with “The term of office…”.


The last proposed change in Article III is “3.) Coordinator(s) and Database Manager shall have no defined term of office.”  This is superfluous, as it spells this out at the end of the new description for both officers.  It is also unclear as to exactly where this sentence is to be placed in Article III.


In Article V – Appointed Positions, the

addition of “Database Manager” to the first sentence.


The final proposed change is the addition of “Database Manager” to the list of “Appointed Positions”.  It is labeled as “3.” in the newsletter, but should be labeled as “4.”, if we were to properly number the Appointed Positions under Section A of Article V.  They are not numbered as subsections at the moment.  The text under this position seems to be from an e-mail that is not complete at the end.  The gist of the Database Manager’s description and responsibilities seem to be acceptable, but it should be rewritten properly and the subsections should also be labeled properly.




This is all at this time.  There will be review of the remainder of the By-Laws as well as the Standards and Procedures.  Please take the time to read and understand the ramifications of what will be changed when the updates are ratified.  Again, I urge all of you to understand that even though you may not have any problems with any other aspect of the proposed changes to our By-Laws, if you feel that the MARC should be responsive to ALL the Amateur Radio operators in the lower peninsula, you MUST vote these changes down and compel the By-Laws Committee to change the membership requirements to allow any interested ham the opportunity to hold office and vote on the MARC Board!



Floyd Soo, W8RO






Letter to the Editor


Hello All:

In the August 2002 MARC newsletter, there were some proposed by-law changes that the membership are asked to review before ratification in December.


As a repeater owner and RACES officer in northern Michigan I felt that I should respond to what I thought of the changes. It sounds as if there has been some narrowing of our thinking in coming up with the change that only owners and/or trustees can be the only voting members of MARC.


We need to rethink our ways of regulation and find ways to enhance and not restrict involvement. We need to be open to maximize our abilities so that we can increase our levels of participation and those who participate.


I urge that everyone that has the ability to voice their opinion, attend the up coming meeting and offer their opinion. With the recent changes that the FCC has made, making it easier for hams to upgrade into the hobby, folks here don’t need to be making rules in the reverse. We should encourage not discourage folks to get involved with radio.


Thank You,

Gerry Crawford, K8GER





A Short Note From the Editor.


If you would like your comments included in the newsletter please email them to dan@waycom.com. Obviously I can only include what will fit into the newsletter. Please also note that the MARC also maintains an email address for communication concerning MARC business as well as a P.O Box for you to send USPS mail. The email address is miarc@yahoogroups.com and the USPS address can be found on the label of this mailing.






Minutes of September 8, 2002

meeting of MARC INC.


The annual meeting of the M.A.R.C. Inc. was held at the Delta Township Fire Station in Lansing Michigan on September 8, 2002. President Dennis Gaboury, W8DFG called the meeting to order at 1 pm. The following board members were present President Dennis Gaboury, Vice President Jim Maike KB8IFE, Treasurer Kelly Karpp KB8RWG, Director Ron Gordon W8YUC, Director Bill Kelley KC8D, Frequency Coordinator Wallace Murray KE8HR, Database Manager Dave Johnson WD8DJB, and Secretary Ron Huber N8JAZ.

Eight members were present.

Treasurer’s Report

Kelly Karpp read the treasurer’s report.


Account Balance

Savings                                  $4502.11

Checking                               $ 595.90

Check on Hand     $ 10.00

Total                                 $5118.01



Check # 1006       State of Michigan                  $10.00

Check # 1007              Ron Huber (Newsletter) $307.85

Total                                                                                       $317.85



Dues                       $190.00

Interest                  $ 25.72


A motion to accept the Treasurer’s Report

was made by Bill Kelley.


A quorum wasn’t present at the last meeting so the reading of the minutes was omitted.


Other Business


Wallace Murray, Frequency Coordinator gave his report showing 2 links, 11, coordinations, 30 repeaters out state, and 9 new requests for coordination.


Al Eckman WW8WW presented a request for a repeater at Lowell Schools Wallace Murray will look into this request. Wallace Murray has accepted the position as Technical Coordinator in the state for A.R.R.L. His position will need to be filled at a later date.


Our new Newsletter Editor is Dan Thompson N8WKM from Wayland, Michigan.



President Dennis Gaboury was re elected.

David Schwein KE8Z of Webberville was elected as Director.

The position of Secretary was left unfilled.



Jim Maike presented a motion that all new or modified repeaters will add tone encoding.

Dave Schwein seconded this motion. This will be brought up again later for changes to the rules and procedures. The final note on Bylaw changes will be brought up in December. Jim Maike will take over as Bylaws Chairman.


Schedule for upcoming meetings are December E.O.C. Oakland County, March Bay City, June Tawas, September Lansing, December Kalamazoo Battle Creek.


A motion to adjourn was made by Ron Gordon. The meeting adjourned at 3:08 pm.

Respectfully submitted

Ron Huber N8JAZ






We are looking for a meeting location in the Kalamazoo area for the March meeting if you are interested in hosting this meeting please contact us ASAP. Please send replies to miarc@yahoogroups.com.




Directions to Mt. Clemens Elks


Talk-in will be on 147.180/100hz Pl


From I-75 (Pontiac Area)


East on M-59 to Groesbeck (M-97) about 19 miles, turn right. South on M-97 to Cass Ave., about 2.3 miles, turn left. East on Cass to Main Street, about 1 mile, turn right. The Elks are located just south of the Post Office on the East side of the street. 179 S. Main.



From I-94 (Detroit) & I-96 and 696 (Lansing)


I-696 will run into I-94. Take I-94 (West) to Exit #231 (this will be second Gratiot exit from Detroit). Continue North on Gratiot (M-3) about 5 miles, to Robertson, turn left. Go to stop sign turn right on Main Street. Elks located just past furniture store on east side of street. 179 S. Main



MARC Board of Directors



Dennis Gaboury


P.O. Box 463148

Mt. Clemens, MI 48046

Vice President









Kelly F. Karpp


PO Box 127

Oscoda, MI  48750


David Schwein


3920 E Frost RD

Webberville, MI 48892


Ron Gordon


7172 Sharp Rd.

Swartz Creek, MI 48473



Wallace Murray


1403 S. Hill Rd.

Milford, MI 48381

Database Manager

Dave Johnson


2266 E. Vermontville Hwy

Charlotte, MI 48813