September 2012 Newsletter

Welcome to the MARC Newsletter a publication of the Michigan Area Repeater Council. This news letter is published quarterly in conjunction with the quarterly business meetings. If you prefer a non-columnized version of this newsletter click here for the wide version.

The September meeting is a physical meeting to take place in Lansing, MI.

President’s Update:

This September’s meeting will be held near Lansing. Directions are located in this newsletter. The meeting will include elections for president, vice president and one Director. All are encouraged to attend and vote for their candidates, or you may run for office yourself. (You must be a member of MARC one day prior to the election to be eligible to run).

Coordination requests are mostly up to date with just a few applications currently in process and six more are on my waiting list for an available pair.

Again, I would like to emphasize the ongoing problem of coordinated repeaters that are not on the air or are not providing the minimum coverage necessary to hold a coordination. (10 miles) If you have one of these repeaters, please correct the problem issues or return the frequency pair back to the pool. Also, if you have knowledge of one of these repeaters, please send MARC the info so that a notice can be sent out. Recently, an off the air repeater was reported to MARC by a concerned ham. This issue was dealt with and the result is that now there are now two pairs that were not available before the notice came to MARC’s attention. Thank you! I need repeater pairs in order issue new coordinations.

Please check out the MARC web site. All the newsletters and the monthly updates are available to everyone. The updates show all new, updated and decoordinated repeaters that the MARC staff has been working on. Dave, WD8DJB, is in charge of the data base. He checks and enters all the updates in addition to reports to the ARRL and numerous other tasks for MARC. Dan, N8WKM, our vice president, does a great job on this newsletter and coordinates repeaters on 220 MHz and 900 MHz and above. Thanks to both of these amateur radio operators for volunteering. MARC’s secretary and board members also put in their time to help the council work through some changing times. MARC has to continue to evolve as the technology available to amateur radio advances.

The MARC web page also has an article that would be of great benefit to anyone that is interested in repeater coordination. The article “everything you wanted to know about getting a coordination”, is well worth the read. It was written by a former MARC officer and has very good information on how the coordination process works. The article details with what the applicant must do and what the coordinator goes through during the process of a coordination attempt.

Please visit the MARC web site and check the activity reports to see what new and renewal applications have been processed.

73, Phil W8IC


Anual Business Meeting Information:

Meeting Location:

Saturday Sept 8 2012
1:00 pm EDT
Delta Township Fire Station
811 N. Canal Rd.
Lansing, MI

Location Map


Take I-96 to M-43 exit 93, go East to the first traffic light at Canal Rd. Turn left (North) on Canal Rd, go 150' to Administration Dr turn left (West), the new fire station will be on your right. Take the first driveway on the right to the West parking lot. Enter the building at the South entrance on Administration Dr.

Please note, on a recent trip through the area, there was construction at the intersection of M-43 and I-96. I do not know the current state of that project. Please be prepared to take an alternate route.


Database Manager's Corner

We have a number of TDS forms that are overdue. Over 27% of the repeaters in our database have not been updated in two or more year’s. So take a minute and check your entry in the MARC Repeater Directory to see if it is time to update your records.

Dave Johnson, WD8DJB


Annual Business Meeting

This month brings the annual business meeting where we hold a physical meeting in the Lansing area. This includes the elections for board positions that will expire. This year, the president, Secretary and one Director postioin will be up for election.

If you are interested in running for any of these positions, please contact any one of the board members in person or by sending email to them using their [callsign] Please note that candidates must also be current MARC members.

The absentee ballot is available for you to print and mail in. We can not accept votes via email at this time. Your ballot must appear in the MARC postal mailbox no later then Friday September 7th to be included. Please also note that in order to vote, you must be a paid member.

Membership dues may be mailed to the postal address listed on the main page of the website, or by clicking on the link to "Pay Your Dues" on the same web page.


Treasurer's Report
For the Period: 05/31/2012 to 07/31/2012

MARC Funds balance on 05/31/2012 was $ 4,539.35
Income for June & July was $61.81 from Dues & interest.
Expenses for June & July were $22.94 for PayPal Fees and our 2012 MI Non-Profit filing fee.
MARC Funds balance on 07/31/2012 was $ 4,578.22

Respectfully Submitted,
Dave Johnson, WD8DJB
MARC Treasurer

Supporting Detail

MARC Funds as of 05/31/2012

   Share Acct Bal
   Money Market Bal
   Checking Bal
   Outstanding Checks
Beginning Balance

   Interest June & July

Total Income

   PayPal Fees
   MI Non-Profit filing fee 2012

Total Expenses

Marc Funds as of 07/31/2012

   Share Acct Bal
   Money Market Bal
   Checking Bal

Ending Balance
$ 0.00







MARC Meeting Minutes

Date: June 2, 2012
This meeting took place electronically.


President: Phil Manor, W8IC
Vice President: Dan Thompson, N8WKM
Secretary: Ann Manor, KT8F
Treasurer: Dave Johnson, WD8DJB
Director: Fred Moses, W8FSM*
Director: Jim Kvochick, WB8AZP
Coordinator: Dan Thompson, N8WKM
Coordinator: Phil Manor, W8IC
Coordinator: Dan Thompson, N8WKM
Coordinator: Phil Manor, W8IC
Coordinator: Fred Moses, W8FSM
Database Manager: Dave Johnson, WD8DJB

* Absent: none
Visitors: Jeff Metiva KB8SWR, Corwin WB8UPM, Ken N8KC

Note: call signs of board members are not repeated in the minutes as they are listed above.

Meeting called to order by Phil at: 1:03 PM.

Motion to approve minutes from the March meeting were made by Jim, seconded by Dave vote taken, minutes approved.
Treasurer’s report fpr April 30 to May 31 read by Dave. Motion to accept the report made by Jim, supported by Fred, vote taken, motion carried.

Old Business:

Fred is still working on some repeater issues in his area of the state.
Fred and Jim are still working on a basic letter to send as a decoordination warning.
Phil stated he would write up a dog resolution to include the new SNPR pair so that Dave can place the info on the MARC web site.
Fred was asked to generate a report on simulcasting to explain what it entails for the benefit of those interested. The goal is to move an analog pair back to the pool. Phil requested that Fred write this information in an email explaining the details and sent it to the board members for review, to be followed by printing in the next newsletters. Fred will be doing some testing of this technology.
Dave has created a membership page and made arrangements for a Paypal account. Fred has tested the Paypal account.

New Business:

Dave stated he shipped the MARC laptop off for repair after backing up all data. Dave asked if we should extend the warranty for 2 years, price $189.99. Computer is one year old. The cost of the laptop was approx $800.00. Discussion. The consensus of the board was to not buy the warranty, and just replace the laptop, or repair it if needed.

Jim discussed DMR repeaters and how the digital signal can open the squelch of an analog receiver.

Phil discussed mototrbo channel separations and made a correction of a statement in the last minutes which are found in the June 2012 newsletter: The minutes stated that mototrbo digital signals had a 12.5 kHz bandwidth. This was incorrect, the necessary bandwidth of 7.6 KHz is found on the mototrbo emission designator. (7K60FXE). It appears that digital signals that have less than 6.25 kHz necessary bandwidth may use 6.25 kHz channel spacing (d-star designator is 6K00F7W) and any wider signals must use the 12.5 kHz channel spacing, but not exceed 12.5 kHz. These guidelines are for commercial bands, but can be a guide for our amateur frequencies. Since our two meter band has only 20 kHz channel separation and the analog fm signals are 16 kHz wide, (+- 8 kHz from center frequency), it appears that the mototrbo signal is too wide to be compatible with the existing fm analog on a splinter channel. Channel spacing on 440 is 25 kHz and therefore offers an opportunity to place mototrbo repeaters adjacent to fm analog repeaters as long as additional distance separation is provided. The present resolution #11 requires 50 mile adjacent channel spacing to FM repeaters for these splinter channels.

Phil proposed the following for consideration by the Board:
Remove the first paragraph and replace with the following:
MARC will provisionally coordinate digital repeaters with a necessary bandwidth of less than 6.25 kHz on splinter channels on the 2 meter and 70 CM bands. MARC will provisionally coordinate digital repeaters with a necessary bandwidth of less than 9 kHz on splinter channels in the 70 CM band. Necessary bandwidth based on FCC emission designator. Also, delete: “for the purpose of experimentation as we continue to learn about how the P-25, DSTAR and similar formats will affect amateur repeater operation”.

The resolution would now read:
MARC will provisionally coordinate digital repeaters with a necessary bandwidth of less than 6.25 kHz on splinter channels on the 2 meter and 70 CM bands. MARC will provisionally coordinate digital repeaters with a necessary bandwidth of less than 9 kHz on splinter channels in the 70 CM band. Necessary bandwidth based on FCC emission designator.

Repeater separation standards will be a minimum of 70 miles between co-channel repeaters. Adjacent channel spacing between digital repeaters will be left to coordinators discretion; however spacing to adjacent channel analog repeaters will be no less than 50 miles.

Repeaters that are offered this provisional coordination may have those coordinations changed as needed. Each person who is offered this provisional coordination will acknowledge that this provisional coordination does not offer protection under the DOG and that they are responsible to work to alleviate any and all interference complaints proven to be a result of the operation of the digital repeater.

Each person will also acknowledge an understanding of the DOG as outlined by MARC By-Laws.

Discussion followed. Fred made a motion to make the changes to Resolution #11 as stated. Supported by Dan. Motion passed.

The discussion included the acknowledgement that splinter channels are coordinated for digital signals only and fm analog is not a part of the coordination. Operation of narrow or wide band fm may cause interference to adjacent channel users. The coordinated digital repeater has no protection in this case. It is recommended that the trustee maintain digital only operation on a splinter channel.

Phil has not had time to work on coordination by coverage area.

Phil met with some adjacent state coordinators at Dayton and found that Wisconsin has no adjacent channel requirement for full channel coordinations.

Fred was contacted by a person from west Michigan that wanted to change the sponsorship of a coordination. Discussion followed. Phil stated these can be changed, but must be changed in writing by sending a letter to the data base administrator. Dave stated he has followed this practice when he has been asked to change a sponsor. Dave requests a letter to be sent to him formally requesting the sponsorship name change. When Dave receives the letter he makes the change in the data base. This procedure will continue.

It was restated that a coordination is automatically dissolved if the sponsor dies and does not have a secondary sponsor. Fred requested that we add a line to the TDS form asking for a back-up sponsor designation.

Phil called for an election committee for the elections to be held at the MARC meeting September 8 (in Lansing). The elections will be for president, secretary, and one board member. Dan, Jim and Dave agreed to be the election committee and Dan will run the elections. Phil polled the incumbents to see if they would run for the same positions and all agreed. Phil asked if any of the visitors would be interested in running, no one offered.

Fred and Dan thanked Phil for his coordination work.

The Lansing meeting will be held at the Fire Dept in Delta Twp. (Lansing area) in September.


Motion to adjourn made by Jim, seconded by Fred at 2:02
Motion carried.
Meeting adjourned at 2:02 PM.

Respectfully submitted,
Ann Manor, KT8F, Recording Secretary

Annual Business Meeting And Elections:

This is a reminder that the September meeting will be a physical meeting to take place in Delta Township (Lansing Area) where annual elections will be held. If you have nominations for open positions please email Dan Thompson N8WKM using Nominations will remain open until just prior to voting.

Offices that will be open for election this year are:
  President: Currently Phil W8IC
  Director: Currently Fred W8FSM
  Secretary: Currently Ann KT8F

A printable version of the 2012 Ballot is available to print and mail.

MARC Officers Appointed Positions
President:               Phil Manor W8IC Frequency Coordinator 902MHz: & up          Dan Thompson N8WKM
Vice President:        Dan Thompson N8WKM Frequency Coordinator 440MHz:                   Phil Manor W8IC
Secretary:               Ann Manor KT8F Frequency Coordinator Links & Control:       Phil Manor W8IC
Treasurer:              Dave Johnson WD8DJB Database Manager:                                      Dave Johnson WD8DJB
Director:                 Fred Moses W8FSM Newsletter Editor:                                         Dan Thompson N8WKM
Director:                 James Kvochick WB8AZP         

All MARC Officers receive email using their